Always 4th suit?

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This topic contains 3 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  billjacobs 1 year, 6 months ago.

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  • #8916

    billjacobs
    Participant

    That’s the way I see it. The 4th suit jump is showing rather than asking.

    #8915
    joaneb
    joaneb
    Participant

    Thanks Bill.
    Good to hear. The hand you suggest jumping on should definitely be shape-showing, and suggesting that you don’t need to find out more via the shower approach?

    #8913

    billjacobs
    Participant

    Hi Joan,

    A possible solution to this problem is to have 3♣ (a jump in the 4th suit) as showing game-forcing values, natural and at least 5-5 shape.

    That’s what my partner and I did back in the days when we played Standard. It seems to me that it solves all your problems.

    Cheers … Bill Jacobs

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  billjacobs.
    #8859
    joaneb
    joaneb
    Participant

    I was told years ago, that if you held a hand like this (which came up on BBO on Thursday 10 March)
    ♠AJ ♥109763 ♦Q ♣AQJ74, and the bidding went (partner, South, was dealer)
    South 1♦ P 1♥ (me) P 1♠ P to you, that you should ignore 4th suit, (2♣) and just bid 3NT to play, as the hands are probably misfitting, and you have too much in the fourth suit.
    It didn’t work well at all here, and we missed a good 4♥ contract.
    Partner’s hand (South) was ♠KQ62 ♥KQ8 ♦A9654 ♣3
    My partner rightly complained that I had not used the system, and should have gone through 4th suit, 2♣, after which he would have jumped to 3♥ He gave exactly the same reasons as outlined below, by GeO Tislevoll (Norwegian/New Zealand expert), to whom I also gave the hand. He says
    “It is easy to just say “of course you should bid 4th suit” when you see the actual lay-out. It is correct bridge to check out if there is a fit in hearts. However, to be honest the 3NT bid would work many many times. But it is always dangerous not to check out if there is a fit. Note that it might even be a huge club fit! Say partner has as little as:

    K10xx

    KJ10xx
    K10xx

    …and it is cold for 6♣ but you will go down in 3NT…

    But main reason for bidding 4th suit with that hand and a lot of other hands with five hearts is of course to check out if there is a 5-3 fit. So why be in such a rush to bid 3NT? Bidding 4th doesn’t mean we will not reach 3NT? If partner does not show heart support you will bid 3NT next time.

    With the actual hand the opener is close to bidding 3♥ over 2♣. In my version of 4th, I play the jump in the responder’s suit as the “perfect” hand with 4-3-5-1 and extras, usually like 15-16 points, close to a reverse hand. This is clarifying well for the responder if he is strong, to sometimes find slams. On the actual hand it ends in 4♥ but say responder has: Ax AJ10xx Kx Axxx and it is a great slam, in fact a very good grand slam.”

    So, if any of you were under the same illusion as I, then it’s time to change!

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